YAAIT (Yet another AI Thread)

[JediKnight]

I was in Reed bog last night doing "Dropping the eaves" quest.
Following the path to the North to listen to the white Mantle chat, I came across 1(only 1) Scarab. As soon as I got him in my aggro bubble about 10 of his mates from wayyy (took em about 3 seconds to reach me) outside the bubble came charging in.

This wasn't a problem but if this continues to higher areas it could pose a serious problem.

[Talic]

Originally Posted by Gli

RE: Permanent Aggrolock II

I have an anecdote to share, and even a hunch about what's happening.

A few days ago, I noticed I still had a bunch of shiverpeak keys sitting on my ranger and I decided to run around Mineral Springs for a bit to spend them all. I ran through several groups of Stone Summit (on my way through Tasca's Demise) and several groups of Avicara in Mineral Springs proper. Nothing funky so far, everything happened as it always did before, no funny aggro mishaps at all.

The first chest I came upon was guarded by a mixed group of Avicara. No sweat, those are easy unless there's one of the nasty bosses with them. I rushed in, got my prize and rushed out, taking minimal damage. This time, an Avicara Ardent decided to stick with me. I ran and ran and ran and couldn't get rid of it. Then I thought: "Hell, this is a pathetic monk chicken, why am I running?"

So I stopped. It stopped as well, right behind me. I walked up to him. It clucked and repositioned to put itself in more or less the same relative position to my facing as he had before. I shot my bow at it, for all of 3 damage. (I hadn't put points into marksmanship ) It cast Shield of Judgement, ran a few paces and then put himself back into its by now familiar position, behind me, about 7 o'clock.

It struck me that it was acting more as a henchman than an enemy.

I decided to experiment a bit and went back to its group of friends. When I got within a certain distance, they all came for me. Or so I thought. I now think they actually came for my Ardent friend. They sensed he was aggroing an enemy and they rushed to his aid. When I turned back, my friend kept following me, but the others (its 'former' friends) went back home, apparently because they wouldn't stretch beyond a certain distance from their home spot.

Completely proper behaviour, except for the single very confused Ardent, suffering from what I'll be calling 'mistaken partymembership'.

A small definition: 'Mistaken partymembership' causes a mob to consider itself member of a party it doesn't really belong to. This phenomenon does NOT change a mobs hostility status, it merely affects its movement patterns.

And now I'm thinking, perhaps the first type of Permanent Aggrolock has the same basic bug at its base? Perhaps the monsters that come rushing in as soon as players enter the extended area they're allowed to move in (usually a modest distance from their home point, but possibly the whole area for a patrol!) see these players as part of their party. Suppose the oft-mentioned wannabe-rebirthing monk is considered part of the party of enemies, what would/could happen? His monstrous 'mistaken partymembers' might have a permanent sense of aggro pouring off the poor monk, because he himself sets off the 'partymember engaged with the enemy' on a permanent basis, being a hostile unit within his own aggro range! Thus, every time he moves within the extended movement area of the monster party he is inadvertantly considered part of, all the monsters come rushing in because they think one of theirs (the monk) is engaging an enemy (the same monk!).

Thoughts?

I can relate, very similar thing happened to me, well, not me, the people TRYING to run me to droks. (At least 20 different runners, only two managed to get near the end of LORNARS pass.)

They will follow you, like your henchman, often grawl casters or avicara guile in the case of lorners pass. They stand behind you like one too... except they wont attack you, just use any spells they have. Quite annoying when it's a ice siege golem.

Did I mention beacons is full of people saying LF RUN to droks, very few runners, and the few runners charging 8k+ dont succeed often, even when dual running, due to the update.

Ok sorry that was off topic, but basically I have seem the AI try and think I'm their hench buddies and follow me... oh, and kournan priests are just suicidal.

[Belicosos Finos]

Originally Posted by lunksunkunk

2. Solo-ing Whitmans Folly:
Use whatever solo build here u want, aggro some grawls within the area just straight ahead out of Port Sledge, run away so that you dont aggro too many grawls and watch those grawl crones follow you to no end. When u stop, they stop, doing absolutely nothing. So you figure kill em right? The moment u target them they start running around in circles, literally. It gets so bad to the point where-in they run around so much that somehow they telepathically call upon their buddies with hammers and they all aggro you in the end with around 10-15 or them chasing you.

I went out with heros (trying to level them) and following a near wipe from a party of grawl, I ran away. When I got near the portal to port sledge I was still being followed by 4 grawl crones, so decided to stop and see if I could kill them. I stopped, and they just sat there, I move to attack one, and they run away.

Eventually I had to stand in front of them and pin them to the wall or a least be in a position so they weren't able to run past me on my right hand side before I could killl them.

And when I went back to find the rest of the group, as soon as they appeared on radar, they would run at me and attack.

Every grawl group that I have aggroed and run away from has followed this pattern.

[ArTy]

I've put up with this from random groups but now it's getting on my nerves.

Before it was the odd Tengu Monk or Scale Mes that would have permanent agrolock. Now whilst doing chest runs in FoW, a Mes decides it loves me and must follow me no matter what. Endless Spint/Chargeing does nothing, it wont give up.

This gets worse when the Mes meets up with a group of buddies and pull them all into agro. So while everyone is is gone, i'm spending minutes running in circles trying to shake off a single Mes and the groups it brings.

Eventually i die and it pisses off....after getting ressed the Mes and its group decides to pay me a visit even though it wasnt in my radar anymore. Like it has somekind of tracking device on me :O

Please fix this soon Anet, very very irritating.

[Str0b0]

You also left out the mass aggro effect where everything in the zone will agrro you once you have aggro'd a single mob. This doesn't happen as often as the other behaviors but it does happen and has been reported by more than just myself.

[Braggi]

Originally Posted by Faith Angelis

Example: On my presear character, north of the wall, I aggro a group of Charr comprising an Axe Fiend, a Hunter, an Ash Walker and a Shaman. I run to a distance of one and a half 'radars'. The Shaman always follows, giving me leisure to stop and kill him away from his damage dealing buddies.

As soon as the Shaman is down, the Ash Walker begins running to my current position from the group's starting position. Alone. 1.5 radars away. This lets me kill him easily too. After the two casters are down, I can then stroll in and pick off the remaining pair with relative ease, free from hexes and with noone to heal them.

That's not realistic, that's just downright dumb.

Not to annoy anyone, but this is old behaviour, unrelated to the AI patch. I had a lvl 14 pre necro some time ago until I reused the slot - it was mostly the shaman following you farthest (unrelated to whom you initially attacked or hurt), and you could pick him off first.

--
Now it is often the healer who goes into running mode, true.
I read somewhere on the forum that he doesn't run when he is the last man standing. Checked this to be about correct - when my warrior goes for the monk first, the monk runs in circles and is very annoying to get down. When the party "brute forces" the opposition by calling and/or spiking, taking out tanks first, the fight looks "normal". No strange and annoying things happen, even the monk fights it out in the end.

[lunksunkunk]

Anet hasnt done a single thing to remedy this aggro-lock issue much less the AI running around in circles. I dont think they'll ever fix it simply because none of them even acknowledge the existence of this problem despite a massive uproar in the community.

To be quite honest, i dont think this issue will ever be fixed, its not a bug, i think they intentionally put this kind of behavior in the game in spite of how moronic it is to stop "farmers" and "runners" apparently. They want you to go through every map and kill every single mob that is out there, so instead of taking only 20 minutes to get somewhere, they want you to waste 1 hour at least on this Artificial Unintelligence.

3-4 updates later after the AI "upgrade" they still havent come out with anything to fix this. Apparently dye-stacking and guild emblems are more important than the gameplay itself.

[Amity and Truth]

Hope: I'm dead!
Amity and Truth: I'm using Signet of Ressurection on Hope!

[Orinn]

Linked to this thread from another. I remembered this one as being clear and relatively flame-free. If anyone else has insights into the new mob behaviors, please post them and try to be as specific as possible as to the problem, especially if you can provide a way to consistently replicate it.

For aggrolock, run from beetletun towards the Ascalon Settlement. Through that narrow ravine, you'll come across first mergoyles, then aloes, then 2 sets of 2 avicara each, then into the ettins. If you run straight through, one of the mergoyles will lock on to you, and never give up the chase. Until, that is, you stop and decide to fight, at which point he will begin kiting at full health. If you stop trying to kill him, he'll start chasing you again. This has happened to my warrior (I even tried outrunning him with sprint and Charge!, to no avail.) every single time. I usually have to draw him into a wall, then pin him and kill him. Very irritating, although he CAN get stuck due to pathing issues at times. Also a good way to see how he manages to keep up even though he has no run skills of his own.

[Orinn]

I have another one to add: Heros and henchies that are flagged to a certain spot sometimes simply do not fight. I have all of my heros set to "guard," and generally pull enemies to them. However, I've seen several instances where the heros won't attack anything, even the called target standing next to them. As soon as I drop the flag, they kill things, but they seem more than content to simply stand there until the flag is dropped.

[Alya]

I have experienced all of the above problems, with all my active characters, on all continents, so frankly I do not think it's chapter-related. I am really surprised that some people have never experienced the AI quirks described above, which I see every time, on a daily basis, and which certainly were not present before the "AI fix" of October, 30.

Tyria (Prophecies): seen them with my warrior, ranger, monk, and necro
Cantha (Factions): with my necro (haven't played with my other chars here lately)
Elona (Nightfall): with my ranger, warrior, necro, ele, dervish and paragon

Mostly I fight in a normal way while questing or exploring, at times (not very often) I run, and frankly, are we obliged to kill every living creature on our way to get from A to B? It's very tiring to have to wipe out everything on one's way every time.

And finally, here are two links to more examples of the current AI's strangeness, from different classes, areas and situations:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10088626
http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forum...d.php?t=428162

[Hand of Ruin]

I've noticed an AI bug with heros. Occasionally a hero that is a caster will target a mob on his own, and run far ahead of me to cast a spell on some nearby mob. Sometimes he will even ignore movement orders and insist on casting a spell on a mob HE "decided" to target... very frustration.

[ectospasm]

this thread and the other should be merged.

Also melee npcs (henchmen) Devona most notably, has a mind of her own as hand of ruin said some casters do. Its like shes set to aggressive (hero mode) or some crap. Also melee characters like Koss (Istan/Elona) and Stefan (from Tyria) seem to not be able to get to your called target if it is within longbow range, up some stairs, and around a corner. As experienced with the seige wurms in Dunes of Despair. They run for your target but get stuck and yo-yo back n forth about half way trying to get to it. Sometimes they actually do make it to the enemy target and engage but get alzeimers and forget what theyre doing there and try to run back to thier master.

[Gaile Gray]

Hey, there,

Of the many posts about AI, I thought it would be appropriate to respond to this one because, really, it's a model of good, productive, helpful, and nicely-presented reporting and analysis of an issue of concern. The designers found this input of great value, and the good news is that they have identified the bug and have designed a correction specifically because of the details that you provided.

So the good news is, you all get a Cookie of Approbation from the Dev Team. (Well, ok, perhaps the baked goods will need to be virtual this time. ) More importantly, the team has located the issue, has identified the fix, and they'll roll it out soon.

James and John, the two designers with whom I spoke a few minutes ago, are going to work with a few other designers from the programming side, in particular, to get a timeline for this fix. I'll be adding that timeline to this thread as soon as we have one. It may not be "Thursday, at 4:00 p.m." because we all know how impossible it can be to give that sort of specific date and time. After all, there are many variables in new builds, and a lot of people contribute to each one, so it's difficult if not impossible to predict an exact day and time. But even if the timeline we give is broader than date/time, do know the fix is identified and the rollout will take place in the near future.

Thank you again for the productive and helpful posting! *major thumbs up*

[Knightsaber Sith]

Yay for fixing
and yay for Gaile

[Alya]

Yay! At last. Thanks for the good news. Waiting eagerly for the fix.

[Blackest Rose]

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Hey, there,

Of the many posts about AI, I thought it would be appropriate to respond to this one because, really, it's a model of good, productive, helpful, and nicely-presented reporting and analysis of an issue of concern. The designers found this input of great value, and the good news is that they have identified the bug and have designed a correction specifically because of the details that you provided.

So the good news is, you all get a Cookie of Approbation from the Dev Team. (Well, ok, perhaps the baked goods will need to be virtual this time. ) More importantly, the team has located the issue, has identified the fix, and they'll roll it out soon.

James and John, the two designers with whom I spoke a few minutes ago, are going to work with a few other designers from the programming side, in particular, to get a timeline for this fix. I'll be adding that timeline to this thread as soon as we have one. It may not be "Thursday, at 4:00 p.m." because we all know how impossible it can be to give that sort of specific date and time. After all, there are many variables in new builds, and a lot of people contribute to each one, so it's difficult if not impossible to predict an exact day and time. But even if the timeline we give is broader than date/time, do know the fix is identified and the rollout will take place in the near future.

Thank you again for the productive and helpful posting! *major thumbs up*

Gaile,
Can you explain what you mean by "the bug" - it seems that the fine folks who have contributed concisely to this thread have mentioned several issues such as agrolock, agrolock 2, aoe endless running.
Are all these covered under "the bug" or will a subset (synopsis by the OP) be addressed.

It would be useful to know which aspects would be addressed so that the original contributors could go and retest and ensure it's fixed once you roll it out.
It would also avoid any potential misunderstanding with the community and a deluge of "you said you fixed this" threads.

We all wait with anticipation.....but in the meantime as much clarity as you can provide would be appreciated.

[Gaile Gray]

Originally Posted by Blackest Rose

Gaile,
Can you explain what you mean by "the bug"

The "endless chasing" issue is what I'm speaking about in the here and now. There are several other issues that are being investigated and, if warranted, changes will be made to address those. It is the "running unto the ends of the earth" issue that is the one that is in the queue for fixing at this point.

[Blackest Rose]

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

The "endless chasing" issue is what I'm speaking about in the here and now. There are several other issues that are being investigated and, if warranted, changes will be made to address those. It is the "running unto the ends of the earth" issue that is the one that is in the queue for fixing at this point.

Thank you x 1000 Gaile!

[Gaile Gray]

Originally Posted by Blackest Rose

Thank you x 1000 Gaile!

My pleasure. More news to come as we have it.